Monday, May 10, 2010

Flint Photos: Angelo's Coney Island Sign


If you're in the market for a visual metaphor of Flint's decline, look no further than this shot of Angelo's from a few year's back by Ben Hamper, author of Rivethead: Tales from the Assembly Line. And I never pass up an opportunity to quote from Rivethead:
"Which is to say that being a factory worker in Flint, Michigan, wasn't something purposely passed on from generation to generation. To grow up believing that you were brought into this world to follow in your daddy's footsteps, just another chip-off-the-old-shoprat, was to engage in the lowest possible form of negativism. Working the line for GM was something fathers did so that their offspring wouldn't have to."

55 comments:

  1. Since many of us Flint Expatriates worship the coney dog and the significance and look to Angelo's as the church from where all good coneys come from -- I have another example of Flint's decline with Angelo's being the focal point of the equation.

    If you drive down Robert T. Longway -- you will see a sign posted just a little North of Robert T on Franklin with an arrow that says something like "One Mile North -- Angelo's Coney Island". Has it gotten that bad that people need to be directed to where Angelo's is? When I lived in Flint it was a given that everyone knew where Angelo's was and you didn't need some stinkin' sign to tell you where to go.

    And here's another thought for you: Now that there's no smoking in Michigan restaurants and bars -- I wonder how much money Angelo's is going to save in the ashtrays that everyone stole?

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  2. To be fair, this is more than a little melodramatic. The sign rusted and buckled, and I think it was in a wind storm. I got a picture of a much lower quality of the same thing. I think the reasoning behind all of the advertisements around town is because the original owner is at Angelo's again. For awhile, a shady cat ran the place, and many agreed that the quality went down. On top of that, the owner opened at least three more locations (Clio Road, South Dort and Bristol Road) that have all since closed.

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  3. Good point, J.L. I always go overboard when it comes to Angelo's. Glad the place is back in good hands.

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  4. My pilfered Angelo's ash tray has had many Camel's life extinguished in it. Also a few more things that were miraculously resurrected for a second, albeit more potent life. It's red paint has chipped off over the years being replaced by a rusty sheen that gives it a dignified presence.

    Still visable are the first three digits of the telephone number. CE9-xxxx. CE represents the word CEDAR, as in CEDAR9....follow by 4 more digits. Area code? No, all of MI was the 313. Take THAT gang-stas!

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    1. Actually, when area codes were first introduced, Michigan had 4 areas: 313, 517, 616 and 906.

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    2. At one time, before area codes, for switching purposes, there were no seven number duplications in the state. So essentially, Michigan had one area code. This allowed, considering switching limitations and design and the dedicated access numbers one and zero, about 8*8*9*10*10*10*10=5760000(about 5.8 million) possible number combinations. This was plenty of numbers at the time, considering population, the number of businesses and the number of people using one phone number. This concept is probably difficult to grasp by younger people used to the instant gratification of cell phones and texting. And many 10000 number local exchanges only used four fourth numbers, also due to switching design.

      Big city exchanges were often on the low end of the rotary dial. 22 was Detroit, 23 (CEdar) was Flint, 24 (CHerry) was Grand Rapids, 33 was Pontiac, etc.

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    3. Anon...do you recall party lines? I remember ticking off some folks by repeatedly picking up the phone until they got off the line

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    4. Yes, I remember party lines. We had one particularly loquacious party on our line named McCarthy. It was around 1956 when J.P. McCarthy was working at WTAC, and I always wondered if it was him!

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  5. I grew up on Angelo's. My dad's favorite was the beens and weenies plate with a big ole slice of onion and a tomato"e" (I pute an "e" at the end in memory of Dan Potato"e" Quayle.

    They have opened a new location on South Dort across from Kmart. Yah know, where the limo's pick up the hoes. . . Yaah know?

    Both buildings have been aethsteticly updated. In an odd, flashy way.

    I agree that the signs should not be so absolutly blinding. Angelo's is a place that is known by all who shall appreciate it. If you did not find it by asking where it was. If you were not told by someone it's a must see on your summer vacation to Flint. Or if you didn't simply know about it. Then MAYBE, JUST MAYBE you probably would not understand it, get it, like it or even appreciate it's significance.

    I mean, should they put a sign up saying, "AUTO WORLD ONCE CHANGE FLINT FOR six MONTHS HERE".
    or
    "OLD BUICK CITY CHANGED THE WORLD HERE"
    or
    "WHERE THIS GREEN PAVILION STANDS, MANY OTHERS BUILT THEIR DREAMS"

    I think all of that stuff would be fantastic for a good sign business in Flint. Or maybe a new, exciting tourism promo enitiatve for the city to spend "stimulious dollars" Then they can put up signs, next to all the other signs that say "paid for by the recovery act".

    Anyway, I like Angelo's. Beens and Weenies, Coneys and Malts (not shakes). A N D. . . The crack heads... lol

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  6. I just saw my first ever Angelo's TV commercial the other day. My ash tray (the gold version) was actually bought back when they still sold them. They still said "Stolen from Angelo's" on them. I just found my old "Eastsider Saloon" hat while cleaning in the barn. A mouse has been gnawing on it but I kept it anyway.

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  7. J.L. ....not "the" original owner but the owner who bought it from "the" original Greek owners is back....kind of confusing but...the second original owner is back....hard to follow but that's the scoop....I happen to know the "shady cat" you refer to. He bought it from the Greeks..ran it for a while sold it and got it back.

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  8. my dad and his partners were the owners of the original angelos. two have passed away and two are retired.i worked there for many years.we
    all have great memories of the place.now is a new but sad time in flint.time to move on.

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  9. I did not grow up on the East side, therefore Angelo's is not MY touchstone for coneys. I grew up near downtown, where Flint Original, and a few others defined the foodscape. Angelos survived the wrecking ball, and none of the sleazy grills near the tracks downtown did. At the time of their demise, I had reached the age of 18 and one of the downtown places served beer with their bill of fare. I still remember the dogs lined up on the grill in the window as I walked down the west side of Saginaw street. I walked by at least once a week from the time I was eight till I was old enough to buy a beer with my food. I also remember the conflicts with the older clientele regarding the length of our hair.
    Angelos is the benefactor of all these memories, because it survived. Just listen to "Over Easy" on WCSX on Sunday morning about 11:45am and you will hear Dick Siegel's song "Angelos" and think it might be our own little piece of history (it is Ann Arbor's diner he is singing about). Amazingly, Toledo has Tony Packo's, Detroit has a handful of good coneys available, and each region's version is different. Angelos is Flint's survivor, and for that it deserves recognition. For true sleazy skid row eats, lets not forget the other great temples of meat of dubious provenance that graced Flint's landscape. Nite Owl, Colonial, Westside, Mikes, Venus...

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    1. Wow....you talk about Colonial like it is in past tense....is it? I had a good friend who worked there so of course, it was my 1st choice. I left Flint in 1994.The first few yrs, I came back to visit often but now it has been almost 3 yrs since I've been there. I almost got lost.....it looks so different. I used to walk past Fisher Body everyday on my way to work. Now it is gone....makes me sad to see Flint now.

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    2. Sorry to break the bad news, but Colonial is closed. It happened about a year ago, and then someone tried to reopen it as Lucy's (?). They were only open for less than a month, and the building is for sale. Thankfully, the statue is still standing.

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  10. When I was a kid in Flint the downtown coneys were not served up in sleazy locations. The US and Original were clean and busy. There was a third across the street near the Junedale mkt, All were good tasting coneys. I knew the families and some lived in my neighborhood in the south end. Some came over from from Macedonia and chopped onions, learned English,saved their money and became an owner. You want to know what hard work will get you? Ask the Branoffs, Nickeloffs, Browns, and Josephs. They are a true American success story. The old man who started it all should have been awarded a medal for what these many families contributed to Flint as successful businessmen and professionals. I'm proud to have known them. PS. Can't remember if it was the right name for that Mkt. now or not....it was seventy years ago or more.

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  11. Angelo's was on my car's radar long before gps. I can not recall how many over .08 nights/mornings she led me there. Telly's is probably my fave coney now, since those days are behind me.

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  12. When I was a kid we used to get the coney's also at the original on the bridge downtown, because they were closer. We always got the chili too. I used to get chili at Angelos but they watered it down badly in the early 90's so now I skip that. I also love Angelos cheese burgers with just pickle and onions plus mustard. "Now that's good eating"! Down Detroit way they just dump regular chili on your dog and call it a coney. 'Not good to me', but to each there own. My mother would always stop by Angelos after picking me and my friends up from a show at Sherwood Forest. Those were the days.

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  13. Dose anyone remember Gregorys on Ballenger near Flushing rd? Loved their fish and chips. Club sandwiches also.

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    1. gary. i am ron brown.... class of 60 (southwestern). i remember gregorys well. which side of town are you from and how old are you. love to hear from you. phone 708 870 4076 email is rbrown4120@gmail.com. ps do you remember gary johnson..son of wayne johnson ...the buffet guy? we both live in the chicago area and are still best friends.

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    2. Of course I remember Gregory's. My dad would meet 10-20 of his buddies at Gregory's every Saturday morning. They called their group the Breakfast Club (long before John Hughes). Dave Mcarius was Gregory's owner, great guy. Awesome French Toast, broasted chicken and even better chicken and dumplings.

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    3. I grew up on Wolcott street near Ballenger and Flushing from 1967-1979 and I have great memories of our dad taking us to Gregory's for Fish and chips. We would sit on the bar stools that twirled around and my dad would twirl us until our food was ready and it was time to go. LOVED their fish and chips. I also remember Burger Chef across the street.

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  14. King Arthur on Ballenger Hwy doesn't have coneys but they have great pasties and pies!
    I remember going to Angelo's after the bar and the punk shows in the 80's. Lots of square cats staring at us...lol!

    RoadsideDinerlover

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  15. I'd like to order a pecan pie from King Arthur on Ballenger. Flint Expatriates can become the Amazon of Flint, by Flint, and for Flint.

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  16. Uncle Buck -- I am not sure when you were a kid in downtown Flint, but in the mid-60s the area from the College Inn to the Royal theater was pretty much skid row and considered a sleazy part of town. I agree with your assessment of the families that created the dynasty of Greek/Macedonian eateries...generically referred to as Coney Islands. The areas that the downtown diners were located was where the "marginal" businesses were located. This included the original Playland and what little "adult entertainment" that was allowed back then. The eateries were institutions, like Vernors/Kewpies. The areas around them failed to attract higher end retail until Citizens Bank expanded and the Hyatt moved in decades later. No amount of old world work ethic could save the area before the wrecking ball changed the landscape.
    To this day, I still consider that part of town the area that had the most significant effect on me. It had a certain William Burroughs/John Steinbeck/Charles Bukowski flavor to it that always attracted me. Just walking the train tracks from behind the Coneys to Grand Traverse was a study in archaeology.
    If I am not mistaken, the third Coney was Mike's.

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    1. I too grew up in Flint and lived near the downtown area. My parents and grand parents owned the Innovation Bakery on the other end of Saginaw street. The Flint Original was my favorite place to stop with my friends on the way home from Central. I have tried to duplicate the recipe, am close but not there yet. I would pay to get the original one. I have the smell and the taste in my brain, know what it should look, smell, and taste like but can't get it right. I introduced my son to them and he at 33 can still remember the taste fairy well. I loved growing up in Flint and visit there occasionally.

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    2. Yes, that third Coney Island on the bridge was Mike's and it was my favorite when I was a kid. Another place I loved to eat was Uncle Bob's Diner on Harrison St. I think it was just south of Second Street on the east side of the street.

      Can't forget the cruising up and down Saginaw Street from A&W on Beach St near Court north to Colonel's Drive-in at Lewis to Wally's on N. Saginaw near Carpenter (or was it Pierson?).

      Downtown Flint began a slow deterioration in the late 50's and went down hill in a hurry when the shopping plazas and Genesee Valley Mall opened in the early 60's.

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  17. I will admit, my current favorite Flint coney is from Telly's. They are actually a Detroit based diner.

    I never really knew to much about the buildings that stood where the university is now. It does not surprise me that they were the marginal businesses were.

    Can you image if they were located on the opposite end of town. Say.. near the southern end of downtown. Would UofM be located closer to Thread Lake? ? WEIRD!

    I wonder if we could archive more history concerning that old part of town that does not exist any longer.

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  18. craigkite...The demise of that Water street mecca probably started it's slide in the mid to late fifties. In the forties, I would ride the Fenton rd. bus downtown and get my head buzzed at the barber college for fifteen cents.Spend some time at playland get a carameled apple at Shippacasse's,then walk to Vernor's for a float. If I was flush, I would get a coney for the bus ride back. The money my Mom gave me was for a legitimate haircut and always stretched much further for me. When I returned from the service,it was during the beatnik era,so Kerouac and Ginsberg would have fit into the Water St. crowd up the street at Plato's Pad near the Mayflower hotel. The Rialto theater was a "B" movie place then. We called it The Rat Hole.It was a dump along with the slum-like conditions that had set in by then. But, as you said, it definitely had a character of it's own. Reece Jones, New Service and Poodle Lounge were glad to take your money as long as you behaved and sometimes that didn't matter. When I became an employed citizen, I moved to the Sports and played scrabble then later in the evening to The Torch to try and get lucky with the ladies. Wishful thinking on my part, my pals were better dressed and better looking. Sooo. Well, this diatribe has strayed considerably from..."chili bowl-one up! Later friend.

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  19. OK, so Kewpies and how to order a cheeseburger have both been mentioned, so:
    a Halo Burger with olives, onions, and mustard. Best ever.
    (tho' I do always have an Angelo's coney when I'm in Flint...)

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    1. SJS...I love Halo Burgers' olive burger...I get one every time I visit Flint. I once had my brother bring half a dozen of them 700 miles on ice....they were still awesome nuked.

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  20. The first time I went to Angelo's (Davison Road) was 1965 or 1966. I worked 2nd shift at the Buick (in Red China now) and we went to Angelo's at lunch time. Sometimes customers would be lined out the door. Who cared what the inside looked like, we rarely went in - it was right back to the factory cause we brought 'em back for friends. Everyone has mentioned how good they were but no one said how fast you got served. Angelo (the guy at the cash registed) shouted out the order and there they were. We only had 30 minutes for lunch but we always made it back on time. (I put price tags on the windows of the cars at the time and I remember Buick Specials at $2499.00 (stripped down of course). I also remember the time when there was a fire on 3rd floor (Industrial & Hamilton)that blew the window frames and glass out on the street. The late Gypsy Jack's (John Steffenson) 1948 Pontiac funeral hearse was smashed by debris. Buick paid him a chunk of money because they couldn't replace the car. richboyd "at" charter.net

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  21. Found this blog while researching events and place which defined me. Born on York St in 33, I left school and home for the Navy in early 50. Came back in 54 for a while and went into the USAF to stay till retirement.

    Come back to Flint occasionally and Angelo's was always a stop until my spouse asserted herself and let it be known that she didn't want to go to that neighborhood.

    Remember well the "Greeks" place as we would hitchike to town, do a Saturday movie for twelve cents at the "Rathole" and meet Dad at the Depot for the ride home as he worked the Pere Marquette. Will never forget walking out of the theater on a cold winter night and smelling the Kogels and Chili cooking in front of that steamed up window.

    Uncle buck mentioned Reece Jones which was to our "Refined Tastes" (???) a real Den of Iniquity. LOL.

    Thanks for the memories.

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  22. FLIC 5180....Almost a carbon copy of my early meanderings, except I did return to the Vehicle City after the USAF experience. I lasted in Flint until the seventies and could see what was destined to happen and got out. Smartest move I ever made. What was your AFSC? Mine was an eight year coffee break and as much airtime as I could squeeze out of them for free as an enlisted man.
    Reese Jones was from my Dad's hometown in Indiana and early on that bar was a showplace establishment in Flint circa 30s. A bunch of those old farm boys left southern Indiana and came to Detroit and Flint to work the auto plants in the 20s. Cheers.

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  23. I'ved lived all over the country. Angelo's is the only place I've encountered where at 3:30am you can happily enjoy your coney sitting next to a hooker, a councilman and a priest and have nothing seems at all strange. My standard order was 2 coneys, hamburger deluxe, fries W/gravy and choc shake. Good eating. Special place.

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  24. Uncle Buck.......Was a 96130 when I entered the AF (Air Police) from Flint in 54, but thru a slight of hand move on the part of a personnel type when I was temporatily assigned to the Orderly Room 'cause I could type, I became a 73010 (Personnel). Got my 5 level and went to Omaha to recruit, but they kept extending my stabilized 4 yr tour until I had to volunteer for Vietnam in 68 to get out so I could get promoted. Retired at RG in KC, MO in 71 and did the Law Enforcement thing and then Radio. Many times on air I told those Missouri people about the Greeks Angelo's and the Coney Islands which I still dearly miss. I'm considering making an order to have some shipped here in Nebraska, but I would probably not share and would suffer from eating it all. 2 with a large Vernors would be great right now. There was a time in the mid-50's when one could stop any man on Saginaw St, ask him where he was from and the answer would likely be Paragould, Arkansas. Shared a house with a bunch of them and always wondered what the gals down there were doing with all the men in Flint.

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  25. Unclebuck.......Thought I'd throw this in for fun. Returned to Flint in dec 53, got my first taste of factory at the new Ternstedt plant out North. Didn't much care for that, drove truck for a Wholesale Grocery co., and several other "No Light At The End Of The Tunnel" jobs. Worked as a Brakeman for the C & O RR until a couple of strike related and model changeover layoffs left me with unpayable car payments. Tested and was accepted for the Flint PD, but parental disdain for that occupation caused me to chuck it all and to enlist in the AF and take an assignment to Lowry AFB, Colorado. Best move a poor kid from East Carpenter Rd outside of "The Auto City" could make.

    Someone commented in one of the blogs about North Flint bars. We used to cash our paychecks at the Log Bar on N. Saginaw at Carpenter Rd. When the phone would ring and the bartender would holler, "Frenchy". 15 of my family would jump up. They all were there on payday.

    You can take the kid out of Flint, but for some reason you can't take Flint out of the kid.

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  26. Flic5180.....After all my brothers returned after the Korean war, it was my turn Jul 55. six months late for benefits except for college. Basic at Sampson, NY. then to Personnel school at Scott.ILL. Then the fun started....TDY a couple of times at Lowry for baseball games on the base team out of McChord, Wash. 317th Fighter Sq. moved to Elmendorf then up to Fairbanks...(SAC) separated in 1959 placed in ready reserve for four years then discharged in 63. Offered a 7 level and a rocker and said NO thank you. Back to Flint worked with the boys from Paragould for a while. GM lay offs put me in dire straights over and over again. Left Flint in 77 after 13 years with Board of Ed. Went north to UP retired as precision assembler from Lakeshore Inc. in 94 a major Gov't contractor. I was going to have teasing fun with you on the JANAP and AFM 39-10 and 11,but outta time. Stay warm Bud.

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  27. unclebuck.....Was at Scott in 69-70 after Vietnam. Owned a home in Omaha and had assignment to Offutt, but they cancelled at last minute. Worked as trouble shooter for AFCcommSvc until retirement in 71.

    Played and coached at Lowry in 5r, 55, 56 and 57 so we probably competed against each other.

    Still like to get back to Flint as often as I can convince the spouse that my life was/is as important as hers. She's a Nebraskan so we have returned for the 3rd time and guess this will be the final place. Was going to try to get to different Angelo's next time, but saw on a Blog somewhere that they were all closed and the Davison and Franklin location is the only one open.

    Those UP Pasties don't compare to a Coney Island, do they??

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  28. Flic5180... I just finished about five paragraphs of nonsense here and somehow blew it all away. I will try to recoup from my feeble memory and try again tomorrow. I'm bummed. A lot was researched.

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  29. Flic5180.. Coneys are in a special class of cuisine to me. You can't put them in the hotdog category really. They just have that unique taste of a quality vienna and a special bun with other secret ingredients that sets it all by it's self in the downtown region of Flint, Michigan very early in the 19th century. That's how I would explain it to someone (and I have, many times) from the rest of the country. Over a hundred years of magic flavor and it's still available today at a Coney Island in Flint. The pasties in the U.P. have kind of the same rep. The Cornish workers introduced them here when they immigrated to work in the mines of the iron range, but they cannot steal your heart the same way a Coney Island Handful can. In late summer of fifty seven we stopped at Lowry on our way to the Air Force World Series being held at....Scott! Of all places, when they were held in Tachikawa Japan, England, Italy,Greece before. I'd like to have a copy of that Lowry vs McChord lineup. I was assigned to a Comm. Center as a 73250 in Alaskan Headquarters, 5010th ABW. Very interesting work at the time. Last October my wife and I went to the Corn Palace on our way through toward Crazy Horse Monument and Bear Butte. Later, Bud

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  30. Baitcatcher... born in flint 1953, Hurley Hospital, raised in Fenton. Dad spent 46yrs in Buick factory 36. I spent over 20 yrs in USAF. Flint Coney Island is the one and only. ALL others are pretenders. My cousin Dave and I delivered the Flint Journal on rural routes in our teens. While waiting for our turn to load our bundles of papers we would walk to the small greasy Coney island on the west side of Saginaw St. Get a bag of Coney dog, run dack to the truck. By the time we would get there we could see through the bag, but man were they good. Someone mentioned the barber collage I didn't get a hear cut any place but there until I went in the Air Force. Now live in Tampa , FL Angelo's is home. When visiting my son in Phoenix we were talking about how much we missed Angelo's so we called and overnighted some and pigged out. Perfict.

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  31. Anonymous.....Was talking with the missus about ordering an overnighter, but can't conjur up any enthusiasm so probably won't. Wish I had a another ex-Flint resident here to do one with me. Can get Vernors at the local grocery store, but it jus isn't the same without the coneys.

    Kearsley HS, class of 51, didn't make it to graduation as could only see factories in my future, so enlisted and two months later, Korea began. Future secured. 4 yrs Navy, 17 Air Force. Now finishing out this long life in Lincoln, NE.

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  32. All I know is that I live in Texas now and I would give my right arm for a couple of those coney dogs right now...

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  33. Fredgarrett........lived in the Rio grande Valley for 10 years and one of the Winter Texans from near Lansing would bring a frozen case of the Koegels, but without the chili sauce, they just werent' the same.

    Flic

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  34. Sure ate my share!

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  35. Barbara Noffsinger BurnsNovember 29, 2012 at 9:45 AM

    As I sit here and read 2 1/2 years worth of replies, There are so many people who miss old Flint As I did. My Father owned a Car lot and an Insurance Office, Which later , Mom and Dad Ended in a Divorce, Which wasn't much heard of back when? Then we had to move to The South end of Flint, Where The Houses, Where more affordable. Which is where I met my Friend who's Father owned Angelo's Coney Island. I still can remember him bringing home those coney dogs in the white paper bags for dinner as a kid.

    I remember being dropped off for the Movies downtown on Saturday afternoon for the Saturday Manatee, 25 Cents each child. Then we would leave the Capital and walk to Halo burger for a kupie burger, with olives, onions
    I Ended up working for Skaffs another family that started there as a rug company Door to door. Then he Opened Downtown. He ended up having to close down the downtown store also. When things got so bad down there. They Ended up in the Warehouse along the I-75 where there are doing very well.

    I left after my daughter went to College.She also attended Southwesteren High, and I could finally leave Flint myself! Best move I have ever made. But my daughter ended up going back? buying a Motel in Northern Michigan. But Now is Back in Florida, Working with the Manatee's Loving her move too! As we all say "you can take us out of Flint
    but, you can't take Flint out of us!!! Coney's and all!!!!

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  36. Re: the quote from Rivethead about people working on the assembly only so their children wouldn't have to ... that's really a very demeaning statement about the people who built (build) the vehicles we all depend on. Remember, in its heyday, Flint had the highest per capita income in the nation. Never before had factory workers enjoyed such a high standard of living. It was honorable work. No, I didn't work on the line. But a lot of my family members and friends did. My career choice took me away from Flint. It was a great place to grow up.
    Bob Gaspar

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    1. Bob- I worked in a factory. It was monotonous and miserable. I don't want my kids working in a factory. If you worked in a factory I think you'd feel the same way. Assembly lines suck.

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    2. I too worked on the line, as did my father and his father. Now I'm on trades and it isn't as bad for me, but my son is still stuck on the line and that is not the life I wanted for him.
      I am proud of our four generations in the UAW and grateful for the life that GM has provided the first three of those generations. Working as a tier 2 employee, my son and his wife can barely make ends meet.
      It is nothing like it used to be.
      The assembly lines used to pay well because of how terrible the work was. Monotonous and miserable, mind-numbing and body-breaking.
      Even if my son could retire from there, (there is no retirement for new employees), I would not want to see him stay that long.
      The only reason I was glad to see him get hired, was that his last job was washing dishes.

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  37. Considering that many of these jobs have been replaced by automation, the point is probably moot. They were honorable jobs, but how many would really aspire to have their children do the same jobs?

    The main problem regarding jobs in the world is that their aren't enough unskilled jobs, and skilled jobs that are replaceable by computer technology, left in the world. Consider that some near genius level people used to spend their entire career computing values for mathematical tables, the most familiar of which are trigonometric tables and logarithmic tables, using mathematical series. More advanced functions, like Bessel functions, are a more esoteric example, familiar to Sheldon Cooper types.

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  38. I'm getting a sense of hopelessness from people "stuck" in assembly line jobs... as though there were no options. There are options. You can train to become a plumber or electrician. You can get an associate's (2-year) degree and become a highly paid medical or automotive technician. Or, you can opt not to advance your education and come down to Texas and drive a truck in the oilfields for $80 grand a year. They're begging for help because 40% of applicants flunk drug tests. Failing to do none of the above, working in an auto factory beats most everything else left, doesn't it? Oh, and pensions are a thing of the past...almost nobody gets those anymore. There are many trade school opportunities and trades that pay as much or more than college graduates earn.

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    1. I had none of these ( A plumber or Electrian or a 2 year degree) Just myself and the will to work and learn. I made it very well I should add! You don't know until you try. If you have someone in another state that can help you with the move, that will help. I didn't. All my Family but 2 have moved.

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  39. Spare us your lecture. Your condescension is thick. Do you think people stuck on the assembly line haven't thought about other possibilities?

    Your options ignore some obvious variables- supply vs. demand, academic ability, Flint wages, student loans, family / living situations, etc. Never mind the fact that are currently millions of unemployed people with advanced degrees and student loan DEBT. When you suggest people just pack up and move to Texas you remind me Reagan's suggestion from Roger and Me.

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    1. What you're telling me is that it takes a lot of academic ability to train as a plumber, electrican, auto technican, carpenter, x-ray/sonogram technican, oilfield worker - or any number of other such careers where demand exceeds supply. These jobs take smarts but not a college degree. I have the greatest respect for these people and people like you who built my Silverado and Camaro. You can say I'm condescending but I say this is good solid advice from an old geezer who has been there. Employers can't find people with the skills they need. If working on the line isn't for you, get one of those skiills and you'll get more enjoyment out of your work and your life.

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